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Published Oct 13, 21
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I want to offer you all a break for a minute and turn to Mr. Swartz. Usually, we would have had two panels, however we didn't know just how the Senate would certainly be running today, so in an effort to make sure we got via all the treaties today, we did this as one panel.

Swartz, you mention in your testimony and also your statements that the treaty with Bermuda also punctures financial institution secrecy and also offers a system for us obtaining the details we require. There have been some common lawful assistance treaties that consist of arrangements related directly to sharing bank records or various other monetary details.

That was a stipulation that was prepared and also taken on in the context of the E.U.

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Under that provision, it's possible for the requesting party asking for seek information as details whether an account exists in the requested country, or in the case of the E.U., one of the requested member states. Afterwards, the request, if there is an identification of an account, have to be followed up with a basic common legal support treaty.

And when it come to Bermuda, our document of collaboration has been excellent. We believe that the document we have on the production of documents, including bank documents, is such that we are confident that the stipulations included in this shared lawful support treaty, which do need teamwork on the manufacturing of records, will certainly be adequate to make sure that we get the documents we need for our economic examinations and also other examinations.

Some various other MLATs also allow for immediate, non-written form requests to be made. Mr. Chairman, while it is real that the Common Lawful Aid Treaty does require requests in written form, it was the judgment of the arbitrators that it was sufficient that, in this instance, with regard to Bermuda, we would certainly be able to get prompt reactions to our requests and additionally offer such responses to Bermuda's demands, specifically due to the fact that we have a practice already established that will certainly continue, we think, under the treaty of being able to share those requests through e-mail or through fax.

Legislator Cardin. Was this, generally, a decision made by UNITED STATE arbitrators, that it was not needed, recognizing exactly how we can swiftly get faxes as well as e-mails sent out? Is that fair sufficient to state, or not? Mr. Johnson. Senator, if I can assist on that one? Senator Cardin. Sure. Mr. Johnson.

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Bermuda withstood that due to the fact that they wished to make certain that the demands were clear and also in a more formal means. In the negotiations, it also ended up being clear that they accepted that such request could be made by fax or by email. So the genuine concern they were concerned concerning was not locating a fast means to make a demand, but really simply taking dental requests off the table.

We're confident that we have actually obtained the ways in place that we can make urgent requests of them in a way that will be reliable. Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, if I might include, in reality, while it is an advantage to be able to make oral requests, in technique, it's extremely rare that we do so.

Senator Cardin. My main issue is just, in urgent matters, that it's not postponed. And also with modern-day communication, it appears to me that can most likely be managed. I'm a lot more concerned concerning bank documents. Mr. Johnson, do have any kind of discuss the bank documents issue? Mr. Johnson. Once again, not especially on the financial institution issue.

The distinction in between being able to do a dental request or being able to utilize among these other extremely rapid methods, we think, is not consequential. Senator Cardin. There've been some problems increased regarding the adequacy of Bermuda regulation relative to forfeits of earnings and also instrumentalities of criminal offenses.

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Mr. Chairman, we are. The Mutual Lawful Aid Treaty in Write-up 17 does obligate Bermuda to give support to the United States in procedures connecting to forfeit of profits and also agencies of criminal activity, to the degree permitted by the regulation of Bermuda.

We've had two examples of effective ask for restraint as well as loss of possessions. Both circumstances were a success and also we had the ability to get the funds. As a general matter, aid is readily available under the legislations of Bermuda, as well as I do believe that is necessary to stress and anxiety, with regard to cold, seizing, and restraining possessions, including for issues associating with terrorism as well as terrorism funding.

Yet it should be noted that forfeit help is not limited to what is permitted under Bermuda's domestic law. When it come to an U.S. order, Bermuda can not waive a details instrumentality of nondrug offenses, because that power does not exist locally. Again, that's limited to instrumentalities in nondrug crime situations.

Legislator Cardin. Thank you. Let me simply ask the general concern, and any among you can react to it. In the Bermuda contract, there's an arrangement that is not unfamiliar to us, where Bermuda can refute participation in resources cases. We comprehend, I recognize that, so I'm not being important of that arrangement being consisted of in there.

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Are we prevented as an outcome of that or is there a method in which we are able to work together under this treaty, even in those instances? Mr. Chairman, we think and we wish we still would certainly be able to work together.

As a matter of fact, we have that experience with other countries that have placed similar interpretations on the common lawful support obligations, as well as we've been able to function out arrangements in a variety of instances that allow us to obtain evidence or go over whether the evidence is substantial enough to go onward with some type of additional steps being taken.

Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson. Yes, Senator, if I could just include in that, among the factors this treaty took as long it did to work out as well as wrap up is due to the fact that it was essential to us to ensure that there wasn't an express constraint on help in funding cases in the treaty itself.

Swartz pertaining to you. Which method we assume that helps preserve the concept that is essential to us, that such teamwork needs to be readily available, irrespective of the sort of situation. And also we think this has likewise substantiated with a few other nations, where despite having comparable concerns regarding teamwork in capital cases, they have, as an example, been able to supply support to the nonpenalty phase of a trial or one more celebration examination.

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Legislator Cardin. Yet they do hold the right under this treaty to reject participation where the United States criminal justice system is looking for capital penalty? Mr. Johnson. Legislator, they hold the right under the treaty to not give assistance in cases that contrast public law or their necessary interests, as well as they have actually informed us that they analyze that to enable them, in execution cases, to exercise that.

I simply desired to make it clear that they would certainly not be an infraction of the treaty. We comprehend their analysis, that if there was a situation pending right here that we needed their assistance, where, plainly, the district attorneys were seeking the death penalty, Bermuda can choose not to coordinate under this treaty.

If I might say, Mr. Chairman, importantly, the treaty would call for, because this would certainly be a rejection under Post 3 of the treaty, that first there had to be appointments with the United States, prior to that denial could go forward. And also I assume that's an essential facet of the arrangement that Mr.

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Rather than having an explicit provisionSpecific arrangement is one of a set of conditions under which assistance may support might after rejected, examination, as well as other things, points there must be should as factor to consider whether assistance can support given, provided to such conditions as problems requested country deems nationConsiders

And also I assume that would be practical for us to have that info in this committee. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the simplest task here, since this agreement was formerly authorized by this committee. As I stated in my opening, we accepted it as well late in the 111th Congress for activity.

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Have there been any type of considerable changes in our investment connection with Rwanda considering that last November when you offered testament on this treaty? What we have actually seen because last November is an increase in United States financial investment in Rwanda, and also I can give you a couple of instances.

Additionally, in February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is mosting likely to open a major hotel in Kigali. And, additionally, Marriott Hotels is going in to help with the nation's growing hospitality market. I would say that, provided this pattern of boosted investment, that it is essential that the defenses be managed for them.

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financiers. Senator Cardin. I thank you for that (foreign tax credit). You additionally stated the fact that the United States is discovering various other reciprocal investment treaties in Africa. I believe you discussed another nation. I assume we have five existing bilateral investment treaties in Africa. Can you simply share with us various other nations that the United States has revealed passion in negotiating treaties? Ms.

Senator Cardin. Thank you. I have actually been told by the team that I must ask the question of whether the management still supports the Us senate adoption of the Rwanda treaty, since it was held over from the last Congress. So, for the record? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We certainly do. Senator Cardin.



I assume that finishes the questioning. I do value your perseverance with the committee and thank you extremely much for your testimony today.

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Answer. As set out listed below, we would love to provide upgraded information on reported U.S. investment activity in Rwanda. Aside from these updates, the answers provided by the Division's witness in the 111th Congress continue to be exact. In 2009, the supply of U.S. foreign direct financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis).

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And I believe that would be helpful for us to have that details in this committee. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the most convenient job below, since this arrangement was formerly approved by this committee. As I stated in my opening, we accepted it also late in the 111th Congress for action.

Have there been any kind of significant modifications in our financial investment relationship with Rwanda considering that last November when you offered statement on this treaty? Ms. Mc, Carthy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What we have seen since last November is a rise in United States investment in Rwanda, and I can give you a few instances.

Additionally, in February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open a significant hotel in Kigali. And, additionally, Marriott Hotels is going in to assist in the nation's growing hospitality industry. So I would state that, given this pattern of increased investment, that it is essential that the protections be managed for them.

capitalists. Senator Cardin (foreign tax credit). I thank you for that. You also discussed the truth that the United States is discovering other bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. I believe you pointed out one various other nation. I assume we have five current bilateral investment treaties in Africa. Can you just show to us other countries that the United States has shown interest in bargaining treaties? Ms.

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Legislator Cardin. Thanks. I have actually been informed by the staff that I must ask the inquiry of whether the management still supports the Senate approval of the Rwanda treaty, given that it was held over from the last Congress. For the document? Ms. Mc, Carthy. We certainly do. Senator Cardin.

I believe that completes the questioning. I do value your patience with the board and thank you extremely a lot for your testament today.

As established out listed below, we would like to offer updated info on reported U.S. investment task in Rwanda. In 2009, the supply of UNITED STATE foreign direct financial investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis).

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